John: It’s time for another show! Hard to believe, but in fact, we’re back with more fun and games, boys and girls. I’m your host JSE, and my special guest today is my good friend Kelly O’Neil. What’s happening?
Kelly: Hello there, my friend. I’m thrilled to be here.
John: This is going to be a good time, people. All right, so. Here’s the quick and dirty, as we say. Kelly and I have been friends for a long time, and we have different business projects together. She and my wife Kelli are doing a new TV show together and multiple other projects, but here’s the cool thing. Kelly is – and I’m talking about Kelly O’Neil now, not my wife Kelli, people can get confused here sometimes. Kelly O’Neil is a branding and marketing expert, and she has helped, I don’t even know how many hundreds or thousands of trainers and coaches, in each of the disciplines that you could imagine, help create their brand, create a marketing funnel, or funnels, and really kind of go from obscurity and from being just a commodity, to becoming a highly regarded expert guru authority, or whatever other fancy word you want to use. How do you describe what you do, Kelly?
Kelly: So I’m a brand-marketing strategist, and what I do is I help people transform really good ideas into visionary brands and profitable platforms that help them attract all the ideal high paying clients that they desire.
John: And so obviously, you guys, this is on the fly. And we are in two different geographic locations, bringing this fantastic information to you. So we’re going to give you information at the close of this show of how to contact Kelly and learn about what she does. And by the way, here’s a quick shameless plug. If you have been to www.nestacertified.com, or certifying agency for fitness pros, and you saw the Marketing to Millionaires program, Kelly created that. And I had the good fortune of seeing Kelly present Marketing to Millionaires live in Los Angeles a while back. And then this was created or transformed into this digital program for trainers and coaches. And it’s super cool. It teaches you how to market your business to the affluent, and branding is part of that, because you have to know your brand, you have to know your market. Wait, first of all, you have to know your market so you know how to develop your brand, so you can appeal to your market properly. But also standing in your truth as who your brand is. And it’s been interesting seeing you work with my wife Kelli in her brand, and you know what’s interesting, is that she – you kind of put her through the ringer with this, really. It’s been interesting to see her go through it. She understands who she is better.
Kelly: I want to get to the heart of who the person really is. Because that is where you make magic. When you’re really about to identify the heart and soul of a person, and what their true passion is, and how they want to serve the world, through their coaching and training business, or whatever it is they’re doing. And then you package that. You package who they already are. And it makes it so much more packable, so much more authentic, and this is what really differentiates people out there. You and I both know. If you are not standing out, you’re invisible.
John: I just saw a picture on Facebook this morning, and it was a cable, like telephone cables. With a whole group of birds on two different lines. And just packed in, they’re carpet bombing the people below. So they’re just lined up there, a whole bunch of crows, and then on the third line, there’s only one crow, by itself, and then the title of this image says, “Which one stands out to you?” Have you seen that image?
Kelly: I have that seen that, yeah. I just posted one that has six goldfish, and then one of the goldfish is blue. It’s all about standing out.
John: Here’s the interesting thing, though, Kelly. People want to be like others so they’re accepted, but yet, if you’re like everyone else, you’re just like everyone else, and you blend in. So here’s the delicate balancing act from my perspective. You tell me, you’re the expert. You want to be like other people, you want to be like them enough where you have enough commonality. You want to know and like and assimilate with the people you’re appealing to and you want to be appealing to. And yet you have to play that standout authority role at the same time, and sometimes that’s a little difficult for people.
Kelly: So here’s the thing. I don’t brand people that way. I am a big believer that when you’re just you, and you unveil the extraordinary you, your ideal clients will come running.
John: Ok. And that’s just being authentic to yourself.
Kelly: Just do you. And look, here’s the thing. Not everyone’s going to like you. And that’s super cool. I mean, who wants to work with people that they have to constantly pretend to be someone that they’re not, just so that they can be accepted by them? That’s not fun. Especially in something like a training or coaching business. You’ve got intimate relationships with your clients. You’re seeing them, whether it be in a group setting or private settings. You’re spending a lot of time with them. And you just want to be you. Here’s a great example. You know me, John, I’ve got a mouth on me.
John: Yes, you do, ma’am.
Kelly: I do. I swear, I call it like it is. For me to try to really curb myself, which I can. I’m obviously around a bunch of toddlers, I’m not going to drop the F bomb. You know, or at someone’s church. I can curb it, but it takes thought and effort for me to do that, or to curb my tongue, or to hold back. It takes a lot of effort. And here’s the thing. Yeah, I can do that temporarily, but do I want to be that way in my business every single day? Or do I want to attract clients who call me up, and they’re just cool with that.
John: I have found, and it’s funny because, I see what – I call her my Kelly – has gone through with this, and then it’s making me think about my brand more. It’s funny because I think about, what is my brand? I am the guy who teaches people how to successfully combine fitness and personal development for higher levels of success in life. That’s it. That’s who I am. I do it well. And I’ve learned that some people love what I do, and some people can’t stand me. And I used to take offense to that. I’m thinking, “Why don’t they like me?” And then sometimes I just realize that some people are haters, and that’s cool. I learned to love haters, because our friend Rocco Castellano says, “Make their stupidity the point of your amusement.”
Kelly: There’s haters, and then there’s people that are just like, “He’s just not my cup of tea.”
John: Yeah, and that’s cool too. That’s all right.
Kelly: That’s cool.
John: Some people are just a pain. But they’re not bad because they don’t like you. It’s just who you are and your brand just isn’t their thing. And I’ve always said that you have to know who you offend so you narrow down who you attract. And people, “I don’t want to be offensive to anyone.” I’m saying you’re not mean, you just know that, my stuff, people don’t like it. As an example – Kelly, the people who are listening to this are all across the board of sports and fitness, nutrition, and wellness, and personal development. And so, as an example, our brand for the Mixed Martial Arts Conditioning Association. Mostly guys, mostly younger, hardcore, very athletic, and it’s a sub culture, so everything’s kind of dark and gothic and straight to the point. And even the videos are a little more raw and not finished, as far as the high level stuff, the post-production stuff. Because they just want it raw and gritty, because it’s real, like you’re in there, and you hear the bell going off for the rounds and stuff. It’s cool. We don’t try to take that stuff out. And then when I go things for the green living coaches and the holistic coaches, we use pastels. We use softer colors. It’s more women. They’re generally a little bit older. They’re generally a little bit more spiritually oriented. And so we have to take all that into consideration. And so what I’m talking about is your client archetype or avatar. Can you talk about that? Because that’s really important, when you’re developing your brand.
Kelly: Absolutely. It’s so important to know your ideal clients. The way that I talk about ideal clients. There’s target client information, as an example. You know if you want to primarily work with women. And you kind of know how old they are. Those different kinds of things, those demographic information. But then your ideal clients. Here’s a great example. In my private consulting business, I work with really high achieving high performers. That’s it. Generally they have huge aspirations, like they want to be on television, they want to write books, they want speaking gigs, they want to impact the world, and they want to do the work of the world that they’re super passionate about, but they’re super high performers. So I’m really clear, for my ideal clients, I don’t work with people who are – here’s a great example of my honesty – I don’t work with lazy people well. Like if you want to kick back and meditate and hope to god that a million bucks drops to you on your couch, I’m probably not your girl. And that’s ok. There’s other coaches out there that will work with you on that. I’m just not that. So in identifying my target clients, I’m also looking for people who are really positive, fun, passionate about what they do. They’re driven. A lot of people are really Type A. They’re like high performing athletes in business and what they want to create in the world. So in knowing that, I can identify my target audience, and then I can create the brand. Because that’s who I am too. So I’m not making up some branding persona. That’s who I am, and that’s who I want to work with. And then that is what we start the basis with, to create the entire brand that attracts those clients. So we utilize language and colors, our logos and everything else that is specifically designed to attract those clients, but everything starts there. You have to know who you are, and you have to know exactly who you want to work with. And like you said, you’ve got to know who you don’t want to work with. So if you go to my website and you watch the video on the homepage, it’s very clear, exactly who I don’t want to work with. Because my objective is to drive them off my site as fast as possible.
John: That’s funny.
Kelly: Running. Screaming. Maybe cursing my name. That would be fine, too.
John: I want to shift gears a minute, because we’re going to talk about logos. Because I love logos, I love creative, I like the process of creating logos. That is part of what you do when you create brands for people, or recreate brands, I should say too. A lot of times people think their logo is their brand, and the new book that Topher and I have out, called Collaboration Economy, we have an intentional double negative. And it says, “Branding always never working” or “never always works” – now I’m trying to think of how we said it. But essentially, what I’m saying is, you’re always branding. Now I can’t even think of what I wrote in the book. It’s hysterical. Basically it’s an intentional double negative, trying to be silly about the fact you’re always branding.
Kelly: Always.
John: It always never works, I think is what we were saying. So if you are not defining who you are, what you do, and how you’re uniquely qualified to solve a problem, people will create their own illusion of what that is. But part of that, when people first learn about you, sometimes, not always, sometimes, it’s the logo. Now I’ve always found it interesting about the typography, which is a fancy way of saying what kind of font and characteristics of it are you using. And is it embossed, beveled, there’s a stroke around it, is there a drop shadow, is it serif or sanserif. Does it have a tilt to it, and is it bold, is it streamlined, is it stretched out, condensed. All these different things help exemplify who you are, what you do, in essence, it’s a personification of the message you want to convey. Now that may sound like a lot. But your logo says a lot about who you are and what you do. Now my logo’s pretty simple, as an example. My name is so darn long that I want to make it shorter, and that’s why I just started going by JSE. And I put a circle around it, I wanted it simple. It’s simple and hopefully classy but not stuffy. I’m trying to find the right mix. And it’s worked really well for a long time, but I have a feeling that you would want to update it, which is ok, we can have that conversation. But it’s working pretty well. And I modeled it after a few people that I admire and made it my own, made it unique. Now you just worked with my wife Kelli to redo her logo, based on her new brand strategy. You guys know what my wife does. She’s a designer on HGTV. And she’s a professional speaker and celebrity – I can say my wife’s a celebrity, that’s ok. In the design space. She’s a noted expert and authority in interior design and has won about every award that there is. But we needed to update her image. And Kelly, you’ve done a phenomenal job. When you’re working with your team and creating a logo like that, and you gave her a few options to choose from after it was narrowed down, what are you thinking about? What’s important when you do that?
Kelly: That’s a good question. Well, first of all, I want to back up to what you said earlier, because this is so important. And that is that your brand is not just a logo. A lot of people think, oh I’ve got a brand, I went to ninety nine designs, and I paid ninety nine bucks, and I have a logo. Now I have a brand. No, you don’t. You’ve got a graphic. And that’s completely different. So your brand is – when you said I put her through the ringer – before we ever get into the design process, we are working with our clients to really understand, again, who they are, what they represent, what their personality is, what they’re passionate about, how they show up in the world, and who they specifically want to attract. And oftentimes, especially with our more celebrity clients – because we do everyone from new business owners all the way up to, I’ve got several celebrity clients. And when we’re doing that, oftentimes they’ve got multiple brands. Or they also have multiple target audiences, as in Kelli’s example. It’s not just that she wants the design client, she also needs to appeal to the media, she needs to appeal to her sponsors, she needs to appeal to other graphic designers for her design camp business. There’s a lot of different things going on there. So we’re taking all of that into consideration, and when we created the brand strategy, that’s the very first thing that we look at, is all of those different attributes, and the client’s values, and how they show up in the world. Like here’s a great example. I’ve got another client, Diana, who is really edgy. She’s ballsy, edgy, potty mouth. She will tell it like it is. She looks like a classy person who would just hop off an eighty thousand dollar Harley. And so we designed this whole brand around, that was kind of like a little rock and roll, for her. Because that’s who she is. And that’s the kinds of clients she wants. She does not want clients who are not edgy, because she’ll scare the shit out of them. That’s not going to work out for her. Whereas Kelli, as an example, in who she is, I don’t know if you saw the final logo –
John: Yeah, I did, I love it.
Kelly: I love it, it’s my favorite. It’s so Kelli. And that’s the way that your logo should ultimately be. When you get to that point, that is just another piece of the experience your clients are going to have for you. We know that, and especially I know you teach that people have visual and auditory anchors. We’ve got anchors to lots of different things. Think about your favorite cologne or perfume that you’re partner wears. That’s an anchor. Or like a song. That every time you hear that song it brings you back to a specific moment in time. That’s an anchor. That’s all part of the things that we create with the branding experience, so the logo is just one piece of that. So that’s the visual anchor that reminds people of who you are. You know, even if you see the Mercedes symbol without the Mercedes word, you know it’s a Mercedes.
John: Obviously, yeah.
Kelly: It reminds people of who you are. So this is not something to take lightly if you’re really serious about building out your business and really swinging for the rafters. If you want to knock it out of the ball park, you need to really consider branding yourself. And I’ll tell you, that was the best decision that I ever made when I got into business, because now I own a branding agency. Before I did brand strategy, but I don’t do design myself. It’s two different things. Brand strategy is different than brand design. Which is also different than graphic design.
John: Yeah, it’s kind of like marketing, advertising, PR, publicity. They all work synergistically, but each one is independent. It’s kind of like that, you guys. I want to go back to something you said, and I’m going to disagree with you. Damn you! But it’s true. You said, “If you really want to hit it out of the ball park, you have to brand yourself.” I’m going to say, if you even want to have a business and survive, not even thrive, but have a business and survive, you must brand. You must own your brand, be dedicated and loyal to your brand, just like you want other people to be loyal to your brand, if you want to crush it. But if you don’t have a brand at all, and you’re not loyal to that, and you build it and hone it over time, you will fail.
Kelly: Yeah, especially now. Did you read that statistic, John, where they said that we human beings create as much information in two years as we did through the dawn of civilization through 2003?
John: Yeah, something like that, and I believe that there is more – something to the same effect – there is more content, video content added to YouTube everyday than has been on television since its inception. Something to that effect. But the point is, people have data overload, information overload. And how are you going to stand out? How will you be memorable in that maze of potential confusion and that limited real estate that’s available?
Kelly: Yes. If you want someone, when they’re surfing, and they pop up on your site, or if they meet you at an event, or you hand them a business card, you want to immediately become unforgettable to them, and you’ve got seven seconds to make that impression. In fact, I just did profitable branding training, and we human beings make eleven critical decisions. We as a species, we’re judgers. We judge. We make eleven critical decisions within the first seven seconds of meeting someone.
John: So first impression is as important as you’ve always heard. It’s not just when you are a teenager and you go meet your significant other’s parents for the first time.
Kelly: They’re going to decide if you’re an expert or not. They’re going to decide if you’re the expert that they want to work with or not. They’re going to decide if they want to stick around and read about who you are or even watch your video. Or if they meet you in person, they’re going to decide how long they’re going to stay and actually have a conversation with you, or if they’re going to excuse themselves, because they have to go get coffee or go to the bathroom. All of these things are happening in seven seconds.
John: And so – This is a whole other opus here. So your brand is part of what is going to allow them to decipher quickly, in that seven seconds, do they want to stick around. But sometimes, it is a specific message in a specific instance, as it relates to your brand, that maybe poses a question as to, do they have the necessary information to succeed without your expertise and the help of your brand.
Kelly: Right.
John: I was going to say, that can be on a blog, a podcast, newsletter, and all sorts of stuff like that. So let’s talk about consistency of a brand throughout platforms, because I wasn’t going to go there, but I think I just led into my own segway here. I love it. When you’re the host of the show, you can totally screw up and forget what you’re going to say, and just meld it right into something else. It’s awesome. So let’s talk about cross platform promotion and brand – I don’t know what you’d call it – consistency and synchronicity. Because you see people that have their brand on their Twitter, their YouTube page, podcast, whatever, all these different things. There has to be consistency. And I’m just as much to blame, because I’m getting better at it, but it’s not perfect, for me. But I’m getting better at it. But what can I do better, and what can everyone do better?
Kelly: Yeah, consistency is the wholly grail of branding. So what happens is, if you go into a Starbucks, as an example. They’re all laid out the same, the same cups, the same drinks, the same names, the same pricing. It’s all about an experience.
Kelly: You’ve got to have consistency. And so the other thing is, it’s kind of like, think about it this way. It would be like if you’re getting dressed in the morning, and let’s say you decide to put on a – ladies, you put on a cocktail dress, and then you pair it with a pair of Nike tennis shoes. Something’s off, right? It just doesn’t go. It just doesn’t go. And so what happens is if you’re not being consistent across your brands, then that’s what it feels like to people, and they may not even consciously be aware of it. But you’ll look like you’re mismatching.
John: Well it’s like you don’t know who you are, so how would they know who you are?
Kelly: Right. Exactly.
John: And I’m telling you guys, when we go over all this stuff, Kelly’s very good at this. But I am guilty of this probably as much as you are. You’re listening and you’re thinking, “Gosh. I am not consistent along all these different platforms.” That’s my challenge as well. So Kelly, I want to give an example also of a consistent message even within the same environment. Sorry, inconsistency within the same environment. So there was a small training studio, just outside my community here, and great trainers, nice guys, talented, very fit, the whole deal. Like all the things you would expect. And the challenge was that they were mixed martial artists, but they were also personal trainers. And in this very small studio, they had like a wall and a cage set up for fighting, and there’s grown men in there grappling and doing choke holds on each other. And right next to it is very stereotypical – this is a broad stroke here, but it’s true – very stereotypical South Orange County, Southern California, stay at home mom, mid thirties, two small kids, SUV or minivan, trying to do her forty five minute work outs with her pink dumbbells. Now that’s stereotypical, but in this place, that’s the way it was. That’s just the way it was. So some things are self-evident. So she’s trying to get this workout done, which is noble. It’s all cool. But then there’s guys grunting and slamming each other right next to each other, and it was called Warrior Heart or Warrior Spirit, or something like that. And they failed. It went out of business. Because they didn’t know who they were. And in simple terms, there wasn’t enough population density in this particular area of guys who want to punch each other in the face. But there were plenty of stay at home moms with household incomes well into the six figures, and they didn’t appeal to them, and they failed because of it. So in that confined space like that, Kelly, what’s the process you say, “This will be my brand because…”?
Kelly: Right, yeah, going into that, it’s really understanding, what is it that you’re promising to your clients? And then everything needs to match up with that.
John: Here’s the other thing that happens I think. They were thinking about what is fun to them, but not what would be best for their business.
Kelly: Absolutely. So you have to be clear about what your message is and what your brand promise is, right? That’s the most important thing. So here’s a great example. I teach marketing to the affluent. Look, that doesn’t make me a stuck up snob, right? I enjoy a good rib joint or a guy bar just like many other people. I’m not all hoity toity all the time. And I can also tell you that when I put on my events where I’m teaching people to market to high-end clients, they’re at my country club. They’re not at the Motel 6.
John: Because you know, yeah. There’s an expectation.
Kelly: There’s an expectation. We take great care to ensure that the entire experience of the conference, from the food that we choose, we often will host some kind of cocktail party, like a White Party. We create an entire experience. We have stanchions, those red velvet ropes. We’ve got red carpets rolled out. We have all of those different things to create the entire experience that helps our clients learn and, whether they are affluent themselves or not, experience that.
John: Well, and people act different based on the environment, obviously. I mean, think about when you dress nice as compared to when you’re in your sweats and you walk through a store. It can be Target. You act and feel, and people respond to you differently, if you’re dressed nicely, as compared to, what I wear a lot of the times, which is board shorts, sweatpants, and a tee shirt. And I feel different when I dress nicer. And my wife is always like, “See, you need to dress like this more.” Because it makes you feel better. And you look nicer. I’m like, “I’m good, I’m super comfortable.” And by the way, right now I’m in a sweatshirt and sweatpants. So just so you know. So neener neener. But you do act different and feel different, and also when you’re out in public like that, that is part of your brand. I’m just looking at the time here, Kel. We’ve gone much further than I had anticipated, and more in depth, which is great. But we try to keep these shows tight and bright. You guys, www.kellyoneil.com. She’s going to give you some more information. And then if you want the Marketing to Millionaires for trainers and coaches, www.nestacertified.com, and then click on the resources there and get the Marketing to Millionaires program. Super affordable, and it’s a ton of information. And when she did this live, it was like a couple thousand bucks to attend. And it’s like next to nothing. So grab that. What is your signoff, Kel? What do you want to say?
Kelly: I just want to thank you guys so much for chatting with me. And again, absolutely, www.kellyoneil.com. And also you can check us out, if you are interested in learning about branding, we do do a complementary brand assessment, a ten point assessment, where we will help you analyze your brand and see where you’re on track and where you’re off. And if we can help you swing for the rafters, you can check that out at www.innovatebrandagency.com.
John: Innovate Brand Agency dot com. You guys, she really does know her stuff. She’s a nice lady, super smart, and I’ve seen the process first hand, and I’m totally impressed. So there you have it. All right. Kelly O’Neil. Thank you. You guys, check it all out. And make sure, if you are not subscribing, you just downloaded this single episode, get the whole thing. There’s lots of cool stuff to come. All right. Peace.
Kelly: Thank you. All right. Bye bye.
www.kellyoneil.com
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